Ed's Threads

Moore’s Law is Dead – (Part 3) Where?

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Comments (10)
  1. Zvi says:

    I would like to correct one statement: “However, the cost/transistor is limited by 2D process technologies”
    Monolithic 3D does change the cost dramatically. The 3D NAND is leveraging this as multiple layers (32 at the recent released by Samsung) are processed together providing
    32 layers of memory for the cost of one !!!
    This was the key of what Toshiba called BICS.
    Please visit our to read many other cost reduction opportunities open up by monolithic 3D.

    1. edkor says:

      Hello Zvi,

      Well, the 3D NAND cell certainly challenges this direct assumption. However, the costs for depositions and etches at least somewhat scale with the number of layers in the stack, so it is not correct to say that the this approach provides 32 layers for the cost of one. Also note that this approach has so-far relied upon relaxed design rules to allow for etch yield.

      How commercially scalable is the 3D NAND cell? I’ve heard rumors that etch issues will limit the number of layers to 64 (2x of today), while lithography needing extreme multi-patterning will limit the X-Y scaling to ~20nm half-pitch from today’s 40nm (4x of today), so odds are it will go 8x more dense before the end.

      I certainly agree, however, that monolithic 3D (“M3D” according to Leti) provides essential capabilities for the next 50 years of IC fabrication.

  2. Mike Bryant says:

    Interestingly the size of a potassium channel in nerve cells is also 3.1 nm in diameter with an internal conduction channel of about 1nm. So much the same as the CNTs. If evolution hasn’t managed anything better then maybe this is another guide to the practical scaling limit, though Nature has managed to solve the 3D integration cost issue 🙂

  3. David Mathes says:

    Mark Twain would laugh and probably say something like …
    “News of Moore’s Law’s death of is greatly exaggerated.”

    Is the bottom really defined by solid state devices centered around the single atomic layers? Perhaps for solid state devices as we imagine them now but in a world where dark matter makes up most of the universe and lacking a good theory of quantum gravity (and inertia) there is hope that the obituary du jour will simply require a retraction for at least another day.

    The bottom may drop out (once again) to subatomic electronics using for example quarks and gluons?

    And then there is that pesky spooky-action-at-a-distance. Could entanglement and other well known physics phenomena be harnessed for the energy, information and propulsion?

    The real answer is that we don’t know where the bottom is. However, we do know where there are safe places to stand on while we figure out where the bottom really is.

    1. edkor says:

      Hello David,

      Sorry, but sub-atomic reality disallows for the formation of static structures with which to build ICs. Atoms are the smallest stable forms of matter on planet earth with which we can build anything. Atoms are, in fact, the bottom…so no matter (pun intended) what hypothetical mechanism you’d like to use in a switch (you can invoke dark-matter, n-dimensional hyper-strings, spooky-action-at-a-distance, etc.) you’re limited to building it out of atoms. Atoms don’t scale.

  4. rarchimedes says:

    Structures do not have to be stable to be used> Qubits can be usefully built and broken down, and spintronics can work with individual electrons. We shall see if these technologies mature into fab-able form.

    1. edkor says:

      In the only world I’ve ever know, structures have to be stable to be used. While a lab may have shown a spintronic device working with an individual electron, said spintronic device must be built out of stable physical atoms of finite size.

  5. Jayna Sheas says:

    I guess this analysis represents what has been (perhaps distantly) foreseen for a long time; people just kept arguing about what is practical (gate thicknesses, lithography, etc.). The time has to come when scaling size stops, and these structures become a commodity which may connect to something else.

    The cost of CMOS at this level is really not a big impediment: a whole lot of things could be done just by building out infrastructure at a constant cost. Energy is the limit: we cannot turn all of our intellectual activity over to computers with present energy/computation. So for progress of the economy which depends on computers, energy should be the focus.

    Without ruling out some grand innovation in digital computation, it seems to me (as it has seemed for decades) that this is where neural network-type computing has to be taken seriously. Our brains work on 50W, and while they can’t factor primes, they still compete with Watson which I believe takes a few MW.

  6. edkor says:

    IEEE Spectrum has a great new article about Silicon being used in Quantum Computing. Note that the size of the smallest stable shown quantum-mumble in silicon is reportedly ~20nm, and that does not include read/write structures. Theoretically, 3nm diameter quantum dots could be connected using 3 SWCNT…but to the best of my knowledge no one has shown anything similar in practice and I know of no one currently exploring such work.